My Thoughts on Joel Osteen and his 60 Minutes Interview
UPDATE: My Joel Osteen posts are at this point 7 YEARS OLD! I am closing the comments on them all.
I recorded Sunday evening’s (October 14, 2007) edition of 60 minutes for one simple reason. They were profiling Joel Osteen. It should come as no surprise to anyone who reads my blog regularly that I am not a fan of Osteen or his version of the Gospel. Now, I do wonder if there was some bad editing in parts, or if Osteen was seriously fumbling answers as badly as it looked. I have yet to track down an embeddable video of the interview online, but you can go here to watch it yourself. Here are some of my thoughts on the interview:
- Osteen refers to the message as “My message is…” and proceeds to only focus on the positives. I have read and seen many of his sermons, and I have yet to see one that does not paint a “peachy, fluffy, nicey” picture of Christianity. It is incomplete.
- The message of God prospering people here on earth is not a promise to ANYONE! There is no reminder that even though God does promise prosperity, it will come on the other side of eternity, not here on earth in a few days, weeks, years, etc.
- When confronted about whether or not he feels that he is misleading people with such a positive message, Osteen claims that he also teaches that people need to embrace where they are and remain positive… which really contradicts the constant need to strive for more prosperity, doesn’t it?
- When asked why the (former) Compaq center doesn’t look more like a church, Osteen is visibly confused and unsure how to answer and his wife jumps in to answer for him (not a criticism, merely an observation).
- What does Osteen do with his money… especially the $13 million that he received in advance for his second book?
- For that matter, what does the church do with the money that it brings in (yes, I know that there are tremendous operating costs, but they are bringing in around $1 million a week)?
- When confronted about the “self-help” nature of his book, Osteen counters “That’s just my message. There is scripture in there that backs it up.” Why is scripture backing up his message, in stead of his message preaching scripture?
- If Osteen’s book is truly to help others know how to walk the Christian life, why is he signing books and taking the credit for what he claims is God’s message? Even deeper, why does he (on camera) accept credit for saving and changing people’s lives if it was God’s message through him that helped them?
- I enjoyed the fact that CBS brought in a differing opinion on Osteen’s message, and the response by Horton is a pretty Biblically grounded response. Even in a climate where the word sin has lost it’s original meaning and depth, how can one preach salvation from sin without mentioning it? He raises other good questions.
- Osteen claims that there is no danger in what he preaches. Hmmm… giving people hope? sure no problem. But giving them hope in prosperity where God probably has not called them to prosper (in that way, i.e. financially)? Big danger there.
- When confronted with accusations that he is diluting and dumbing down the Christian message, Osteen fires back that sometimes you have to keep it simple and not make it so complicated that people don’t understand. But how can you make people understand that there is sin to be atoned for? Hmm…
- The crying seems forced. I don’t know, maybe I am just a little too cynical…
- I chuckled a little when they showed his monitor when he was writing a sermon. It was actually titled “Joel Osteen Sermon #…” I just found that amusing. Heh.
- Why is Osteen so concerned with having to have entertaining stories to keep people listening? Or do his best? Yes, we who are entrusted with the preaching of God’s Word on a regular basis to congregations need to strive for the best, but our desire should be that the Spirit moves through us and uses His words no matter what we say or do on stage.
- The house? A little too extravagant in my opinion from what little we saw in the piece. I think I might have found where that $13 million went… I would be very interested in seeing where and how he tithes and gives.
- Why are the books written and titled to improve the person? Why not truly be about a better walk with Christ instead of self-improvement?
- There is no Christian iconography in the “church” at all. But there is at least one American flag. I know that they do not want to scare people away with crosses, etc., but I have a serious problem with putting up a flag in a place of worship but nothing to help aid the direction of congregants’ hearts toward God. (And the screens could be used, but they do not seem to be).
- People do seem to be joyful in the service. But what are they joyful for?
- It is admirable that Osteen desires to teach how to forgive and bring them back into a life in(with) the church.
All in all, I do believe that large churches have a place and a calling in ministry to people. But a big problem that I have is that Lakewood does not seem to be carrying out the real mission of the church. If the leadership cannot interpret Scripture correctly (for one example, go here and look around the 1:55 mark. I checked several translations, and the second half that Osteen reads is not in any Bible I own…), how can I expect smaller groups to interpret properly? I am a firm believer that once we enter into relationship with Christ, we are accepted into a restorative and justification-centered relationship, but it is a process we have to work through with much fear and trembling. Not something where we become perfect and God will grant all our wishes. I am also a believer in meeting people where they are at and not using “Christianeese” in evangelism, but to completely drop any and all “sin language” is misrepresenting the Gospel! How can we expect people to truly follow Christ when they are not taught what Christ saved them from and to?!
Please weigh in. I would love to hear some more thoughts on this one. And if you are weighing in on the side in favor of Osteen, and want to call me out on “criticizing” another Christian, remember the Bereans who were exhorted for double-checking instead of blindly believing, and that we are all called to “test everything and hold onto the good (1 Thessalonians 5.21, corrected from some bad number transposing earlier in the life of this post).” Let’s have well-thought out conversation.
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Osteen’s Gospel seems to be more of a ‘self-help’ gospel than a truly Biblically based message. I’ve watched him preach and if you didn’t know who Osteen is, you might not have a clue that he is supposed to be a Christian pastor. The fact that his wife is a ‘co-pastor ‘ with him also contradicts the clear message of Paul in the New Testament. The fact that the church only has a flag and no other sort of religious icons or paintings doesn’t bother me. There are many people who worship together in rented halls every week in this country who don’t have any of those things adorning the walls and I doubt that they would say that it effects there walk with God. Maybe it just the fact that I’m a guy who is oblivious to the bare walls surrounding him.
I think the guy means well, but his message is definitely light on substance to say the least. For Osteen to say that abortion isn’t the best way just seems bizarre to me. To my mind, abortion is an incredible evil. As far as homosexuals go, I can understand not wanting to alienate them, but it’s sounds like Osteen is instead trying to accommodate them rather than teach them truth, although it’s not really clear what he would teach them. When you think about the fact that this man is influencing so many people with his preaching I think people of good conscience have good reason to be concerned about the substance of the message that Osteen is preaching.
Did anyone else catch the line from the Dubai piece (after Osteen) where the president (?) of Dubai said he wanted his people to have “a better life now”? I busted out laughing!”
I have to wonder if 60 minutes edited things on purpose for that line to come in on a piece following the one on Osteen. But it also underscores the point that “having your best life now” through prosperity and the like isn’t particularly christian at all.
hey brother, just for your info, the link to your church is wrongly spelled, you forgot a dot before com.
Be blessed!
I just happened by your post concerning the Joel Osteen interview on “60 Minutes”. I only caught the tail end of it. Personally, I really don’t care for “mega churches”. In my opinion I’m not able to see how individuals are able to form lasting relationships within churces that size. I guess I’m accustomed to churches where eveyone knows everyone. I actually have a connection with my pastor. Mr. Osteen appears to have a huge following. On one hand, it’s great that people appear to have their lives changed, but on the other hand folks really need to know their Bible. We all should do our own reading and research when it comes to the Bible. Sometimes those that are supposedly “called ” to lead a flock may not be suited to do so. Good post!
why dont you get a real life instead of taping an interview and tearing it apart?]look at the number of people that listen to him and to the people that he has given hope to without them having to take a penny out of their pocket. im interested in knowing the number of people that listen or follow you or perhaps the number of people you pastor…i can probably guess right…NONE. jealousy will get you no where.
Daniel – I agree heartily. I too, pray that he has the best intentions at heart, and feel that those who watch as the Bereans were commended for (they listened and studied… no tv’s then) will be well-equipped to fill in others on the mission pieces of the message.
Amy – I did not watch the following piece, though i still have the interview and may just have to go watch it after getting back home from my sister’s wedding. And I agree that a message of prosperity here on earth now flies in the face of all that is the message of Christ. our reward and true prosperity will be later on. For the message of the cross to the unbelieving is foolishness… kind of makes it hard to be prosperous now and be a Christian, eh?
refreshing – thanks for pointing that out. my keyboard sometimes leaves things out, and i did not check it out before i posted it. it has been fixed!
michele – let me first reiterate, i asked for intelligent discussion, not mudslinging. with that said, allow me to address your comments:
~i taped the interview because i was genuinely interested in what osteen had to say. he is in a position of great influence in our culture and i would love to see him use that platform for more than offering a “feel good” faith.
~i think that it is great that osteen is conscious of not asking for money on air. this is one of the things that is known to turn people off to Chrisitanity the most. But what comes after hope? I guarantee you that were I to spend the money for his book, and follow the principals, I would fail, and that would be attributed to me not having enough faith, which is neither true, nor truly Biblical.
~if you take a few minutes to look around at some of my posts about youth ministry you will find that i am not concerned with numbers at all. they are not a great way to judge effectiveness. But if you really wanted to know, I have been in youth ministry for over 8 years, either as the min leader or as a volunteer. i still have strong relationships with students from just about every ministry I have worked with over the years and take pleasure in seeing them grow. I am currently serving as the youth pastor for a church in northwestern pa, and have the pleasure of being able to disciple the students here on a very regular basis. And, i feel that this needs said, not every person will listen to me when i teach or preach. i have had many people walk out wishing they had not been there after a sermon or two at previous churches because the sermons called them out on sins that they were guilty of. (i did not call anyone in specific out, and did not chastise anyone personally, merely called attention to a few areas our church was sorely failing in). yet interestingly enough, i used one of those sermons my first weekend here in my current position (i filled in for our vacationing senior pastor), and not only did the congregation listen, but many came back to let me know how they had put some of those principals into practice, or how they were already doing so. it is not about how many people listen, it is about giving the message that god calls you to give, and there will be times in EVERY pastor’s life when they are called to give more prophetic messages, not just the feel-good stuff.
~finally (this could have been a blog post. hmm…), i will admit that there are times when I long to be more financially secure. and you could call this jealousy. yes, there are times when i find myself being weak and wanting to have people pay attention to me on a larger level. but in the end, i am reminded that my reward, my best life if you will, is not going to come here. sure god calls me to live my life to the fullest and to give my all to him, but it cannot all come here on earth because we have not been fully restored to God. i am okay with having to pay on a mortgage for a house i no longer live in. i am okay with the fact that i will be paying off college loans until i am well into my 50’s. i am okay with the fact that i will not be getting a $13 million advance for my next book. (and if you nose around a little, you will also find out that i am a bit of a champion for open-source ministry materials, and have been a frequent contributer to another youth ministry blog where i receive no compensation for the materials i have prepared. this is not me putting osteen down for making a profit off of his materials, merely pointing out that this is not where God calls me to make my living). i know that my life to the full can come only in part here, and that it will be complete once i meet Jesus face to face. it is true that jealousy will get you nowhere, and when i see it in my life, i ask that Christ and those that i trust to assist me in eliminating it. but this post was not written out of jealousy. it was written out of a genuine desire to simply share my thoughts on what is a church (and a minister) with great potential, but are getting the message wrong… or at the very least, getting it only part of the way.
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Donna – i would have said something sooner, but your comment got caught in my spam filter (akismet). i too see a great value in smaller churches. in fact, in 8 years, the bulk of the churches that i have worked with have been under 100 total members. some around 40. and we should all be good bereans, and not just take what someone else says as truth without properly evaluating it. Amen!
Hey, the scripture is 1 Thessalonians 5:21 not 6:12-14.
Thanks Steve. I was also looking over 1 Timothy 6.12-14 at the same time, and I must have transposed the numbers. Frankly, I am a little surprised and disappointed that it has taken someone this long to catch that typo. Thanks for your attention to detail.
Read your analysis of the Joel Osteen piece and could not agree more. The fact is that many are too lazy to read the scripture and pray for a spirit of discernment and understanding but rather a quick fix and feel good religion. Too many of these televangelists fill in the void and preach “name it and claim it religion.”
I too have listed to many of these televangelists that twist (- and albeit outlandishly too) the Word to fit their position rather than preaching “Christ and Christ alone.” For any doubter, listen to Charles Stanley and compare the message to any other.
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Just for the sake of the discussion let’s pretend that all stories about Jesus are true. If everything I have read is true, Jesus was all about giving. Jesus was all about helping the neediest. Jesus was all about more spiritualism and less materialism. Jesus was all about a humble life with no excess and fanfare. Jesus was a socialist basically.
Joel Osteen is the main speaker in the Lakewood church in California. He, and almost all the religious leaders, wear very expensive suits; have very luxurious life styles, several cars, millions in bank accounts, bonds, stocks, business, etc. They do contribute a portion of their personal wealth with charity organizations but the rest is spent in luxury that contradicts Jesus teachings.
Not too long ago I heard him saying that Jesus wants us to be wealthy, there is nothing wrong with being wealth and have money. Honestly I agree with that, but I am not a religious leader. A religious leader (like Jesus, like Gandhi) will give all his belonging to the poorest just to make his movement stronger. Just to make the right thing. I am not saying to give just because, I am implying teachings, speeches, support, leading by example.
If he sells some of his properties (maybe the house by the beach or by the mountains that he doesn’t use very often), he could use all that money to start a real educational campaign in Haiti (the poorest country in America).
Is hypocritical to live a luxurious life and being a Jesus speaker. Jesus lived on a cave, he didn’t have any belongings because he was really a religious person. Think about that Joel.
good points to remember morochos!
My input is that everyone has the right to believe or feel the way they want, remember this is America. With that, it doesn’ matter to me what any of you think about Joel Osteen, whether you are a Christian, Theologian, or whatever. The bottom line ‘for me’ is that out of all the ministers i have ever listened to in my life, Joel Osteen is the first preacher ever that i feel excited to listen too and I recieve a christian heart felt message that applies to my everyday life. If preachers would stop preaching about the old days (BC) boring, and begin preaching about today, maybe more people would start attending chruches and want to give back to churhes. Joel Osteen defintiley is not even paid enough for the great work he does every week.
Love Ya Joel! Keep doing what you are doing, there will always be critics when you are doing something great, i think you are ‘outstanding’.
Bobb
bobbe, you are correct in stating that in america we all have the right to believe how we choose. there are two things in your comment that concern me, however.
the first is that you are making a rather bold statement that pastors should not focus upon the past (bc) and should instead focus upon today. while there is much merit in focusing upon today, without the past, there is no today. there is so much that we can draw application from the past for, that to ignore the Old Testament is dangerous at best, and foolish at worst. without seeing where we come from and how God has worked in and through us in the past, there is no way we can truly see or appreciate what He does today in and through us. It is a part of our story, and we need to remember it. i highly recommend listening to rob bell for a great example of a pastor who looks at the past and applies it to here and now.
the second thing that worries me is your statement that it is about what you feel. while there is much merit in what brings uplifting to your soul individually, there is also a need to listen for the words of God that will call you to the carpet for things that we are missing the point on. look to the prophets in the OT to see more of this. we (especially here in america) tend to ignore the more stern words that God has for us.
i am glad that Osteen has inspired you to listen. has he inspired you to read and study scripture on your own? has he inspired you to serve others? if he has, great! if he hasn’t, then there is no genuine christianity in his message. a bold statement, i know. but one that has truth to it.
thanks for your thoughts! hope you keep reading, and that you read my other post on this same topic (the post is a re-print of my earlier looooong response to this one).
blessings on you!
You have so much negitive that I thought I would bring some positive. I watched Joel Osteen for about 2 years on Tv and listened to the line at the end of every sermon “get yourself in to a good bible based church”. I Thank God That he Put Joel Osteen on my Tv and Gave me the Desire to want to find that church and the Thirst to want to open my Bible and find out more.GOD USES PEOPLE!!!You must give Credit Where Credit is do How many of us out there has that happen to? I now serve in a great church and only have the desire to learn more. Joel was a stepping stone to lead me to God and I believe that I got here thanks to him and I don’t doubt that I wouldn’t have gotten here. I just might not have gotten here as fast with out Joel Osteen. I am sure that was all God’s Doing. So in the end I don’t care about the money he makes or clothes he wears or the house he lives in He has been blessed! I am only happy that he led me to my Church where I get more intense teaching of the Bible.Thanks for writing from another view. Just be careful what you write about someone else. He could be leading somebody to be a great leader in in your church someday.
michelle,
you bring up some good points. especially the fact that God does indeed use people for His work. in fact, one of my favorite books of Scripture is Judges, where we see God using all sorts of faulty, flawed human beings to deliver Israel. And here is where we need to draw a distinction. it is God using these people. if credit is to go anywhere, it needs to go to God, not the person that God is using (or allowing to be used, however your theological bent leans).
i am glad that God used osteen to help encourage you toward a bible-believing church. and who knows, HE may use osteen down the road to steer someone into the ministry that i oversee.
and if you re-read the post (and the answer to the other michele [with one l] i do see some good and some great potential in osteen and his ministry. but i refuse to ignore when someone in such a position of influence is preaching an incomplete gospel. i only pray that if i were to begin offering less than the full gospel that someone would call me to the carpet on it.
there is good to be found in osteen. just make sure to watch out for what looks good, but is actually misleading.
thanks for stopping by and attempting to bring some level-ness to the dialogue. hope to see you read some more from around the blog and leave your thoughts! (and i pray that i do not come across harshly. it is not my intent at all)
Hi Everyone,
I consider myself a Christian – albeit a flawed one by design… I don’t attend Church as regularly as I would like or should, although I’ve attended Max Lucado’s Church (Oak Hills) here in the San Antonio area on and off for the past five or so years. I’ve been pushed away from religion on many occasions by the righteous ones.. I’ve also led myself away from God’s word, simply because I didn’t grow up with any type of spiritual leadership from a family perspective…..and, well, I struggle in my walk as a result sometimes.. Long story. Not offering excuses – it is what it is…
Anyway, I never really watched Joel Osteen before a few weeks ago. I know, I must be living under a rock. I’ve seen a couple of his “sermons” and I watched the Larry King replay a couple weeks ago as well.. So here’s my take…
I think the guy is honest… Religion “Lite..?” Yeah, probably. But so what? I don’t have a problem with the money he makes, the kind of car he drives, or the $13M house in which he lives. He earned it I’m sure.. Joel’s different, and his message on Sundays is very much like a self help message with a dash of biblical reference. Again, to that I say, so what? I think there’s a niche to be filled by what Joel Osteen is offering. Is it for me? On occasion, yes.. I think the man is sincere in his message and his desire for the people with whom he reaches to live more abundant, happy lives.
No disrespect intended, but those Christians who dislike Joel’s message remind me of the types of people who pushed me away from religion – the same people who would judge me… In the end, what do we think Jesus would think (or thinks) of Joel’s message..? Would he like Joel? Would he think that any conduit, albeit unorthodox, to get people to search their feelings and pursue a relationship with Him through a Bible based Church (as Joel recommends) is worthy of praise..? I think He would…
We have so many people today turning away from Christ and religion because of those who would cast stones.. Those who abuse their positions (Catholic Priests come to mind). I find it refreshing, quite frankly, to listen to a man who would rather talk about why we should turn toward Jesus and pursue a relationship with our Creator, than someone who would choose to rip me to shreds with condemnation because I’m not perfect….or because I don’t lead the “right” life.. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Is he “trained” and educated by the finest most doctrinally sound institutions? No.. We’ve had many of those well trained folks in the past who turned out to be……how shall we say…..not so nice people.. But they were well educated.. This is the hypocrisy of it all IMO.
In the end, I’m willing to give the guy a chance. If he opens people’s hearts enough to get them to pursue a local Church and grow in a relationship with Jesus Christ… Why not?
Have a Great 08. God Bless You.
Clint from San Antonio
It has been a few years since you wrote this, and I am wondering, if you have grown in your understanding as man, the reason and value of another man’s path, beyond the limitations of your experiences.
I am wondering at you, an educated man, who is basically mocking any man promoting the good of God. This is a problem the increasingly educated populations face in the world, when trying to learn about God and Jesus, and how to relate to what the bible is teaching. You bring to light the problem of bringing modernism to religion, and how people, with their specific educations, either limit that through criticism, which has done more to damage the value of religion and to promote atheism, or by attacking someone else who has found a path different than theirs. Many such people are either uncomfortable with change or are simply limited in their understanding of God’s plan, and want people to see their perspective on religion, so that they may be comfortable, and that is tragic in a changing world. As I read your “observations” of the 60 minutes segment, who as a bias, news based organization, miss the mark as often as they hit it, I have the Billy Graham sermon from Halifax on in the background. It is pretty evident to me what you see, and what you miss. In the end, it is very simple. Who would most rather hear discuss life issues an a given day, someone who criticizes, like you, or someone who promotes, like Joel? How about the millions around the world who gain good for listening to his message? Do you know why? Do you know why the youth is declining in their desire to believe in God? Do you know why people like Billy Graham transcend generations? Perhaps instead of criticizing, you should focus on what people may need to hear in an increasingly troubling world, how to interpret their needs, and why someone may just want to hear a positive thought for a few minutes a week. Understand that, and blogs like this are unnecessary.
Here is the most important thing you are missing, above all, and why I am wondering. You are minimizing the human spirit with your criticisms. Any person seeking the truth and the word of the Lord, will find it. Did you consider that is a process, and that perhaps Joel is part of that process for some, and that most people reach conclusions at any given point, then seek to find greater understanding and fulfillment? Perhaps by focusing on what your path is, instead of Joel’s, you will better put your education, and your understanding, to work for the greater good. In the spirit of the Lord, and not the condemnation of any man, may I say, God bless you.
Thank you TK. Your comments are more thought-out than many that have appeared on this thread. Since you took the time to produce these paragraphs, here are a few responses:
1. I am not “basically mocking any man promoting the good of God.” What I did in this piece (and others) has been to point out shortcomings and potential dangers other “Christian leaders” are broadcasting for all to see. There is nothing wrong at all with someone wanting hope and positive ideas at the end of a long week. But when the entire ministry is built upon the positive and no time at all is given to our need to be saved from sin it is an incomplete ministry at best. Teachers in the church are to be held to a higher standard, regardless of their “path” in life. I am merely attempting to bring Biblical standards to bear when assessing the message of one of the most popular televangelists in the world today. To declare that God wants everyone to be successful and blessed financially is a flat-out lie and mishandling of the Scriptures. And as an aside, if Joel is truly promoting the good of God, why is the icon on the podium a stylized version of his own initials?
2. I have met people who did start their process of finding God through people like Joel. Can God use him? Yes. But why should we be willing to encourage people who are seeking to start with such a flawed message and then change dramatically once they have matured past this first phase?
3. I have also met many more people (adults and teens) who were completely turned off to God because of people like Joel who made promises about what God wants that did not come true. This is one reason that teens walk away from the church in the massive numbers they do today. We have built them up with a faith that has no real roots, and encourage them to see Christianity as something they plug into their life wherever it fits. Billy Graham transcends generations because he is not afraid to preach the whole gospel. He does not cut out sin because it might offend people or make them feel bad about themselves, nor is he concerned with whether or not the people he is speaking to “remain positive.” He wants them to engage in a real relationship with a God who will walk with them through the storms and the calm.
4. I find that I am a tad confused with your comment about the human spirit. My comments are merely to point out shortcomings (and some of the positives) of one of the largest churches in the country. If we are truly seeking God, should our “human spirit” not line up with His, and as a result should it not be minimized as we draw closer to Him anyway?
Again, thank you TK. You have been more considerate than most on this post.
thanks for your thoughts Clint. please feel free to check out my other replies (if you have not already done so) and the follow-up post to this one.
as to the question “what would Jesus think of Joel’s message?” it is my honest belief that He would disprove. It takes the message of the Gospel and twists it into a self-help message with Scripture shoehorned in (many times incorrectly) as an afterthought. Jesus did not doe so we could be successful with money (a popular message from Joel’s ministry), but so we could become citizens of the Kingdom in the here and now.
I do not seek to rip Joel to shreds. You can see in my other comments and my follow-up post that I do point out some positives. The church does indeed do some good things. And I do not seek to be someone who pushes people away from Christianity. But to preach an incomplete Gospel is just as bad (if not worse) as not preaching the Gospel at all.
Have a great 08 yourself, and thanks for writing. May God bless you deeply in your struggles as you walk alongside Him. And thank you for your transparency about your own shortcomings as a human being. Far too many of us do not offer up this type of humility in public forums.
I believe he that is without sin should cast the first stone on Mr. Osteen. I have sat under teachings that totally send me into condemnation, and truthfully that hurts…so if I can sit under a message that tells me I am going to prosper then I would rather hear that. Who wants to be beat down. I truthful already know I am a sinner. Jesus paid for my sin. Jesus’ death and burial were both negitives, but he left us finished with the positive…HIS RESURRECTION. How wonderful. So, I believe it is God’s will for us to prosper. He said we can have life and have it more abundently. So Mr. So and So..if you are without sin cast the first stone. Also, doesn’t the bible teach us to lift up our brother’s and sister’s edify them. What would you call what you are doing. How is what you are doing serving the Lord? What crown do you think you will recieve for what you are doing? The bible does tell us to ask each other questions. You are painly gossiping about a child of Christ. How do you know if he is right or wrong? Who are you to judge anyone. The bible says with what measure you judge you will be judged also. I would be careful if I were you. Joel Osteen will not stand before Christ on Judgement day for you. We all stand alone that day and we better make sure we are working for him and leading people to him not from him. Please forgive me if I came across a little harsh. This is just what I feel the Lord lead me to share, and I hope it helps someone. Jesus died for us all that is the bottom line. If we confuse him that he is the Son of God then we will be saved. We are hear to tell the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is the will of the Father on each of his children’s lives. It is not GOd’s will that any should perish. So we should keep what is really important in mind and in action. Serve the Lord, tell someone that Jesus loves them. You may just brighten someone’s day just like Joel does. God bless Joel Osteen and this man that I am writting to. Forgive me, but I never caught your name. As far as Victory been co-Pastor she is not taking authorty over a man. She is doing what she believes she was called to do. We all have to anwser for ourselves.
Heather, thank you for your comments.
two things strike me about your thoughts. The first is that you openly admit that you would rather be made to feel better than to be condemned. And while I feel that all humans feel the same way, to expect Scripture only to reveal to us the comforting thoughts is naive, and wrong. In fact, since you openly claim to know that you are a sinner (as are we all) you should also expect that the closer you draw to God, the more His light shines. And the more His light shines, the more of our impurities we will see. Sanctification is a process, and is not something that will be completed here on earth. While I am not calling for Joel to only preach fire and brimstone or gloom and doom woe is me pitiful sinner in the hands of an angry God, if he refuses to teach on the nature of sin, then all the good that he preaches is worthless. It is only half the story.
Second, you accuse me of casting stones and gossiping. First of all, I am not casting stones as the people who Jesus offered that sentence to originally. Joel preaches in a public forum, therefore his message (and his ministry) is open to not only public scrutiny, but also other other believers to study, reflect and call out what parts are good and what parts are bad. In fact, the Bereans in Acts were commended for doing what I have done (in a slightly different, less technological manner). If I were gossiping, I would be sharing a rumor or a report of an intimate nature (Webster’s definition). I am not judging Joel (as you could see by reading my thoughts), but critiquing his message and ministry. He has a great platform, it simply saddens me to see him squander it on feel-good messages.
We are indeed called to edify each other, and if you are able to read through my follow-up post to this one (which is merely my re-posting my response to michele) and a few other comments, you will see that I do indeed seek to commend Joel on his stronger points.
By the way, my name is Brett
Thank you for the kind words.
I think Jesus would see Joel as a man who is attempting to reach as many people as he can with a positive message… I also think Jesus would offer Joel advice on how to improve his message and bring it more in line with his own.. Hopefully Jesus will do just that, as I think Joel has a platform to reach millions of people with a message of hope…
As for the incomplete Gospel, yeah, I think Joel needs to turn the ratio in the other direction… Meaning, preach the Gospel more and use self help examples instead of the other way around… He doesn’t get it right, but he does make an earnest attempt to bring people closer to God.. I really don’t know that God cares how we get the message, but I think he wants us all to hear Him… I could be wrong.
As I mentioned before, I don’t know that much about Joel’s ministry. I’ve watched a couple of programs and I plan on reading his newest book. From what I’ve seen, it appears his heart is in the right place.. Again, I see Joel as someone who fills a void in what’s available for people – a conduit to get people to ask themselves questions and become involved with a church family… It’s not perfect, and probably not 100% scripturally sound, but I would rather see people tune into his programming than watch the local news or E Entertainment, et al…
By the way, congratulations on the birth of your daughter. Abigail is a beautiful name. My best friend named his daughter Abigail and they call her Abbey.. My daughter is 13 now… I remember the days when I taught her how to ride a bike and tie her shoes. Now I’m teaching her how to sych. her iPod to her computer and combine like terms in Algebra… Time passes much too quickly. Enjoy every moment and thank God every day for that wonderful blessing.
Take care,
Clint
thanks again clint. i do treasure every moment i can with abigail. and i am currently working on getting the video i have taken of her up on the web (and on dvd for our use at home) to share and brag about a little.
definitely not looking forward to her growing up too fast. she’s already well on her way to that…
Move over Gary Robbins….
um… who? and is this a good thing or a bad thing to be compared to this gary robbins?
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Joel Osteen has an amazin gift that is given only by God. He is one of the most powerful preachers and in the course he teaches self help using GOd as it’s base, and???. Of course you are going to critic the size of his church the books that he writes and the millions he brings in. What do you want Christians to look like? He is super blessed, He does not only focuse on prosperity with money, but that is all you choose to detail. Someone that filled with love and so blessed that shares his stories, that gives us faith and makes us want to come closer to God, and wishes for the best, I do not see the wrong.
You can prosper in many ways, not only money wise and I think that is where you got stuck and therefor do not completely understand.
We as christians must expect the best no matter what we are faced with that is called faith, and if God does not prosper or wisht to prosper us with material things, there are so many other ways that are worth so much more.
Healthy children, a good wife or husband………….
Just a thought.
thanks for your thoughts annette. as always, i will admit that there is good to be found in the ministry of osteen, and that God can use anyone He chooses. My thoughts here are merely me attempting to be a good Berean and helping others to think critically. Please check out my response to some of these responses for a fuller picture of where i am coming from:
Hey I just wanted to weigh in on this as it seems a lot of people are beginning to go up in arms about this blog entry. I would completely agree with what you said. First off, most of what was said was mere observation, secondly, CBS did exactly what I expected any investigative reporter to do and I applaud them.
In my mind, the primary reason why Joel Osteen is diluting the message is this: he makes the message about you personally. He preaches a kind of self-help, encouraging message of prosperity. That’s why it appears to be so good and helping so many. Because it probably is helping a lot of people. But is it the message that Jesus would preach or is it a message that will take you into a deep relationship with God? Honestly, my gut says no.
His message is so self-focused that it leaves no room for ministry to others. And the message he teaches shows in himself, with his huge house, nice suits, and expensive cars. The Christian walk is 100% not about you. It’s about others. Leading others to Christ, helping the poor, helping the needy. If there is any question as to whether or not Jesus would preach this message the answer is a resounding, “no”.
Get a red letter Bible. All of Jesus’ words are right there. Jesus told people to sell all they had and follow him. He told them that the humblest would inherit the kingdom. He told them to quit their jobs and follow him. He told one man to abandon his inheritance and follow him. (“Let the dead bury their own”). That doesn’t sound like a message of prosperity, but it always was a message of love. Joel Osteen has associated prosperity with love and that’s not true. Prosperity bring happiness, but love brings joy.
thanks for your thoughts john. you put it so simply, i couldn’t have said it better myself. especially the last paragraph.
I agree with Dr. Headly’s comments and feel that you are right on target with your comments. I’m beginning to ask myself how many of the ‘so-called christians’ who side with Osteen and his ‘not preaching’ on sin and repentance, are following “what the scripture calls for ALL of us to do when it comes to God’s Word?” This ‘is not’ a game and w-a-y too many lives (i.e. souls) are at stake, but I get the feeling that that doesn’t seem to matter too much these days. Although, we only get to hear 30 minutes of Osteen’s ‘sermons(?)’, if he is ‘preaching’ (although, he keeps saying he’s NOT a preacher but a christian motivational speaker, this is not a joke people, can someone PLEASE find the definition of that word for me somewhere in the Bible?) on sin and repentance and it’s during the second half of those tapes or DVD’s, then why won’t they show it?
Lastly, in these “last days before Christ returns to set up His true Kingdom”, we need to ask ourselves just how “real” we’re being when it comes to ‘naming the name of the Lord and Savior’ who we keep telling the world that we believe in? Exactly what kind of christians are we when we want to ‘preach'(?) more about prosperity, making people feel good “now”, and ‘your best life here on earth’ when these false statements are written NO-WHERE in the greatest book that mankind will ever know (the Bible)? Are we really content with letting those who should know more about God and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ who gave His life a ‘ransom’ for us ALL, in order to bring us to a right relationship with God who knew us “before” this world even existed? I’ve heard Joel say that those who attend his “church already” know Christ as their Savior, so he just “shows them a better way to live out the christian life”. What about those who ‘haven’t accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior’, or don’t even realize that they Need to repent of their sins and seek Jesus for a new life?
For all of you who think we’re ‘hating on Joel’, I just want you to know that in my case that couldn’t be further from the truth, but my earnest prayer for Joel and his family, and others who go to that building they need to realize “right now” that if they don’t seek the “real Jesus and repent of their sins, get into a right relationship with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ” while there’s yet still time, that Joel and no one else will be able to save their souls from hell and that’s the ‘Gospel truth’. I earnestly pray for all of them to seek Jesus while He may yet be found. May God have mercy on us ALL.
if people are saved through joel that to me is all that matters! i think you need to find something better to do than criticise people who are seeking first the kingdom of god.
Kate, thank you for weighing in. It amazes me (though perhaps it shouldn’t) that nearly two years after I first put this post up people are still reading and commenting. Anyway, on to your thoughts…
There is merit in agreeing that any way to get people into a right relationship with God is honorable and good. But it could just as easily sway the other way. I hate when Christians share stories of how they were converted just to avoid the fires of hell, for example. All fire insurance, no relationship. Or when people come to the Kingdom with no knowledge or expectations of hard spots or persecution.
I worry about those people touched by Joel. I worry even more about the people who are already believers and are being given incomplete (at best) or heretical (at worst) truths to base their service around. We as believers are called to test what is given to us by “teachers of the Word” which Joel claims to be. If his ministry cannot stand up to scrutiny, that should say something about how true his words really are.
Please feel free to continue our dialogue, and to check out my detailed replies to some of accusations in this comment thread if you have not already done so…
joel,
I am the bride of the Holy One! Continue to worship, teach and share your wonderful stories,
Your gentle voice and nature pleases me! I do enjoy you and your style! God Bless You my son! As the time is upon us, he is here and among us now!!
God bless you, Linda
… uh, Linda, you do realize that this is not Joel’s blog, right? and the odds of him ever reading this are infinitesimal at best. what saddens me the most about your comment though (along with your phrasing of “as the time is upon us…), is that you are so focused on Joel’s stories, voice, nature and style. all of that should be secondary to Truth and accurate Biblical interpretation… even if that means you are convicted from time to time.
Thanks for your thoughts
This was a fascinating read. All of if, from the initial thoughts on the interview and then the bristling of the people that were offended by your ideas.
I would agree with you on just about every point. Honestly, I’ve forgotten some of the original content after reading all of the comments.
And really I just was looking around for some experiential prayer ideas for my youth group and saw this on the right hand side of the page and couldn’t resist clicking.
Anyhow, I’m probably going to use some of the ideas that you shared and directed me to. I appreciate it. Blessings in your marriage, parenting, ministry and anything else in this upcoming year. I hope God will use you to serve well!
Merry Christmas.
There is a lot there to wade through, isn’t there?
Glad you found the ideas and practices useful. Let me know how they go over if you decide to use any of them.
i am so blessed by your teachings, you are a God sent preachar my the almighty God bless you so much for blessing our hearts.
Sadly, the common theme today is that all roads lead to heaven. More and more televangelists seem to be preaching this or alluding to it. Even Billy Graham seems to suggest that other faiths, such as roman catholicism can still lead to Jesus Christ. Protestant pastors have become so liberal and are not being faithful to the Holy Bible. Whatever happened to fire and brimstone sermons? Who preaches anymore about hell?
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Jealous much. Jesus would agree with how joel is doing his sermons. It brings people together. Just keep your comments to yourself and don’t post them on some website thinking people will actually take there time to read them. Going through google by typing up “joel osteen”, I just happened to click on this link cause it seemed interesting, but instead, I read a criticizing post. Just leave the man alone. Just because he does things differently, from what your use to, doesn’t mean you have to take the time getting on a computer and writing a page about how you don’t agree with joel’s way of doing things. Just because he’s well known and more successful then you, doesn’t mean you have to criticize. I can’t believe your a minister and your criticizing other minister just for preaching the word of god and they way he does things. Keep your criticizing comments to yourself, minister, worry more about helping people then criticizing them.
Bryan, as I have responded to many others previously, this was not done out of jealousy. I have no desire to have the money, the notoriety or the size of congregation that Joel possesses. In this post I merely offered my thoughts on one interview and my own personal experience with Osteen’s ministry. I am sorry that you feel I am attacking Osteen and his ministry out of hand, but to accuse me of writing this post out of jealousy without even taking time to get to know who I am and see my heart for ministry is worse than what you accuse me of doing.
Unbelievers have no understanding of why Christians judge other so-called christians. Osteen is a false teacher. How do we know that? Check some of his teachings against the word of God.
The christian world is suffering badly because we are not using discernment and weeding out wolves among the sheep. We have allowed false teachings and cults to flourish unchecked and deceive millions.
I understand what you are saying.. A lot of preachers today do not preach the Bible or the word because they want to be politicaly correct. Taking bits and pieces out of the Bible to conform to their own agenda. Christian or not people need to read and look at their bibles to make sure what is being preach is the complete and full Gospel. Make sure what you are hearing is backed up by scripture if not call this to the attention of the Paster.For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Brett, this is so wonderful. You really know what you are doing. Personally, I enjoyed Joel’s preaching without thinking more before I read this. It will not stop me from his messages, no!, but I will now on receive it with my GODs word in my hands, more so that red printed bible with Jesus’ words. We should love all, but Joel needs to read this too, may be you can touch him like me here!
BTW everyone, notice that Brett replies to our messages, non judgementally, but observantly!
Informantly speaking, I have read all this post and all messages and have athe christian judging of the word, that my brother Joel may not be emphasizing much as he must,….now that we are in the “time!” This only calls for caution to me, I doubt it is out of jealous or anything wrong.
I love Brett and I love Joel and their teachings, to me we are all brethren, where one is trying to show the other where they are going astray or may go off track! If one refuses to listen though……I get back to my ever loving Jesus Christ and his word, and my brothers are my brothers! Thank you Brett, may the good Lord our KING always be with you like he was when you wrote this!
Thank you for your kind and balanced words Sandra.
I have been looking on the internet to find out what charities Joel Osteen supports.
I am wondering if he, his family, and/or his church have seen such a need, be it in our country, or other countries throughout the world, that he is really moved by the suffering, the poverty, the lack of food, clean water, medical care, etc. that he wants to do something about it…
I am trying to find out if he Is he “passionate” about doing something about the suffering of these people throughout the world and how he purports to help them.
I realize he may be thinking he is helping people through his Sunday messages, his videos, and his books. However, shouldn’t his ministry go beyond that? Can’t some of his millions and millions of dollars go towards supporting these people through some of the worthwhile charities out there?
And if he doesn’t like any of the multitude of organizations/charities that are out there to help people….. has he or his church thought of ways that they could better meet the needs of many of the people suffering throughout the world?
I know we all all have different interests, different things that we are “gifted” in, and that we don’t want to be stretched so thin we aren’t helping anyone, But he has so much money that he could do such great things with. He could meet the needs of so many suffering people in the world…
Thank you for your time.
Thanks for your thoughts Sandra. I do believe that Lakewood (as an organization) is responsible for the Angel Food Ministries which many churches around the country take part in. I do not know that Joel has anything to do with this directly, but it is something good coming out of Lakewood.